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TOPIC: Attenuation not working

Attenuation not working 2 months 2 weeks ago #1

  • neuroxik
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Hey all,

I've read the manual, guides, tutorials, and can't figure this out. I've made a soundfont from scratch but no matter what I do to attenuate the sound (global, instrument, preset) with positive values (even tried negative values), the sounds clip (play way too loud) if played in a DAW (Cubase, etc) beyond the approximate velocity 66. Thing is, I don't want people to have to play (or 'draw') notes that are half quiet in order not to distort. Attached is my SF2 Uploaded my SF2 to box created via Polyphone (42.2 MB). Any insight would be greatly appreciated :)
Last Edit: 2 months 2 weeks ago by neuroxik. Reason: changed topic icon
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Attenuation not working 2 months 2 weeks ago #2

  • bottrop
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you forgot to assign each sample to a specific key (sample middleC to key 60, etc...) this is easy in Polyphone; Tools> Instrument> Automatic Distribution.
for all soundfonts you are going to make in the future;
1. give your samples a proper name, so you can find them back in the Sample Folder of bigger soundfonts. i myself add the Root Key of the sample as the number of the key it will be assigned to.
2. always assign a few milliseconds Attack to your Instruments ro avoid possible popping at the beginning of the sample
3. always assign 1 second Release to Volume to your Instruments (to start with, you can change that later if it is too much or too little)

drive.google.com/file/d/1D9IG_p48myVOcVb...3eS/view?usp=sharing

regards bottrop
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Attenuation not working 2 months 2 weeks ago #3

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bottrop wrote:
you forgot to assign each sample to a specific key (sample middleC to key 60, etc...) this is easy in Polyphone; Tools> Instrument> Automatic Distribution.

Wow, this worked! Thanks soooo much! And thanks for having taken the time, I hugely appreciate this.
bottrop wrote:
2. always assign a few milliseconds Attack to your Instruments ro avoid possible popping at the beginning of the sample
3. always assign 1 second Release to Volume to your Instruments (to start with, you can change that later if it is too much or too little)

Good advice, but I had already taken care of that when cutting up the samples as I always do, cut from the nearest zero-crossing point (where a signal is neither positive or negative) before the transient, and added a quick fade out at the end which is the same as release. It's manual ADSR but I like to have granular control over the sounds before I export them. It's actually the 1st time I embed them into a "sound font" so I was new to that aspect, so many thanks for that!

Have an excellent day!

p.s.: If ever you see this sound font uploaded, I've restricted the key range back to 36-96 instead of 0-127 because I want this to be like the original source without any time-stretching. It can't be worse than a lot of sample "patches" I have for Kontakt which are very limited in their range, like say a Baritone Sax, having been sampled from (in that case) real instruments which don't have such an extended range. But it's good to know you can do the 0-36 and 96-127 trick for scenarios where it doesn't really matter that much :)
Last Edit: 2 months 2 weeks ago by neuroxik. Reason: added post script
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Attenuation not working 2 months 2 weeks ago #4

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the fade of a sample is not the same as Release in a soundfont. you will only hear a fade when the whole sample is played, with shorter notes you wil hear an annoying cut off.
play a few short notes at key 55 of both Presets in the attached sf2 and you will hear the difference.

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Attenuation not working 2 months 2 weeks ago #5

  • ziyametedemircan
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bottrop user has already written what is needed.

Some minor remarks:

A value of around 0.300 ~ 0.600 for the vol-env-release is sufficient for jazz guitar. (it may vary depending on whether it is pure electric or acoustic body)
Values around 0.600 ~ 0.900 can be used for cased instruments: Violin family and Nylon Guitar.
Values of 1.00 and above can be used for grand pianos and ensembles: Strings, Choir, Church organ, etc.

Don't be afraid of these values seeming too high. The fade-out time is fast, and when half of the entered fade-out time is passed, it usually reaches the inaudible part.

Technically you should use a minimum value of 0.001 (~0.003) for Vol-env-attack. And if you don't want a dominating guitar-pick sound or piano-hammer sound or something similar at the beginning, this value can be 0.007 or higher.
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Attenuation not working 2 months 2 weeks ago #6

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bottrop wrote:
the fade of a sample is not the same as Release in a soundfont. you will only hear a fade when the whole sample is played, with shorter notes you wil hear an annoying cut off.

Man, I don't know why my mind was acting up and not identifying it as such, of course if I cut a note halfway or anywhere, especially with lower frequencies having less cycles to complete per second, it's going to create clicks/pops, thanks for clarifying that there!

bottrop wrote:
play a few short notes at key 55 of both Presets in the attached sf2 and you will hear the difference.

Do you mean note 55 as in G3 ? I tested both your GtrJazzRel & JtrJazzFade and none seemed to click (yes, very good studio headphones + over a decade of almost daily mixing). I'm wondering, maybe my soundfont loader (TX16Wx) has a built-in release, because I hear clicks all the time usually, especially with things that control dynamics such as compressors & limiters.

Wow -> No wonder I couldn't test the release properly or hear your examples, they put a 50ms default release in FX settings. I turned it off and now I hear them very clearly. I wouldn't want to publically release a soundfont not knowing what the end-user might have like settings if settings at all. Good to know, thanks.


ziyametedemircan wrote:
A value of around 0.300 ~ 0.600 for the vol-env-release is sufficient for jazz guitar. (it may vary depending on whether it is pure electric or acoustic body)
Values around 0.600 ~ 0.900 can be used for cased instruments: Violin family and Nylon Guitar.
Values of 1.00 and above can be used for grand pianos and ensembles: Strings, Choir, Church organ, etc.

Yah, that's what I thought about when thinking the way a compressor would act. Thanks for the info. I (almost) always stay on the safe side and put 50ms minimum especially when there are those lower frequencies.

ziyametedemircan wrote:
Technically you should use a minimum value of 0.001 (~0.003) for Vol-env-attack. And if you don't want a dominating guitar-pick sound or piano-hammer sound or something similar at the beginning, this value can be 0.007 or higher.

I would understand for the release but I'm not sure about the attack here. I mean, in my case I prepare them before importing them into Polyphone and the attack is already taken care of. Or is there something I'm ignoring about sound fonts the same way I hadn't caught on early about the release being not the end of the note but ceasing to play it before the end -- as for the attack, it always starts there anyway. My question sounds sarcastic but it's not, I'm really curious.
Last Edit: 2 months 2 weeks ago by neuroxik. Reason: formatting
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