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TOPIC: Organ - Custom release glitch.

Organ - Custom release glitch. 2 weeks 2 days ago #1

  • csw900
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I am trying to make an organ sound font with custom releases. My test file is attached which I invite you to download and test yourself.

The problem I have is that there is a significant and unacceptable glitch when a note is released. I have already tried everything I can think of to cure this but the problem persists.

The problem appears to be that there is no control of the volume rise time when the release occurs - using this could make a cross-fade at the critical time. However I cannot find any way to achieve this.

All comments welcome - especially any that lead to a solution.

csw900

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Organ - Custom release glitch. 2 weeks 2 days ago #2

  • ziyametedemircan
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Use the original full samples, you don't need to cut the release time and use it as custom-release. just make sure the loop exists.
For the original sample's loop, select the red-backed loop symbol.
When you release the key, the rest of the loop will play as a release.
where you specify a value of 3 seconds or higher in the vol-env-release part so that the release parameter does not automatically fade out and the original ending can be heard. // may require trial and error.

The problem here is that it may take some time to exit the loop depending on the key-press time, or the release time may be shorter than the others if the end of the loop is reached.

I added a demo soundfont. It contains a single sample and this sample is used between A3 and D2.

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Organ - Custom release glitch. 2 weeks 1 day ago #3

  • csw900
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Thanks, your method is new to me - why did I bother to read the Polyphone tutorial?

I will do some experiments with your method. I have tried out your sample and done a brief test with my own samples and it appears to work with no glitches.

Your method has many advantages. It will more than halve the time to make a sound font.

You did mention a problem which I do not yet fully understand - plus it is possible with short key presses the release will occur before the loop has even been entered - will the custom release still play? Also the full length of the sample always has to be used whatever length it is.

csw900
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Organ - Custom release glitch. 2 weeks 1 day ago #4

  • ziyametedemircan
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if the key-off occurs somewhere at the beginning of the loop, it will play the remaining loop part and enter the release part after that.

if the key-off happens somewhere at the end of the loop, it will immediately enter the release part.

This can be problematic for very long loops. In short loops, the problem will not be too obvious.


I tried to explain the situation with a not very successful text representation below :)

     loop    release
-|---------|---
  ^ -------|---
  key off 
          ^|---
          key off
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Organ - Custom release glitch. 2 weeks 16 hours ago #5

  • csw900
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Thanks for the clarification - if you are correct then it completely ruins the method for organ sound fonts. Decent pipe organ samples are normally between 3 to 5 seconds long and the releases are usually less than 2 seconds.

I have updated my demo sound font using your method and it sounds OK. However it is very difficult to tell the difference between a 2 second fade out within or before the loop and a 2 second real release at the end of the sample. If the release occurs near the start of the sample then the sound definitely does NOT continue to the end of the loop and then play the real release. It would be easy to notice this.

Clearly I will need to do some experiments to find out what is really happening!!

PS I have just looked at the waveforms on my audio editor. I appears that the release just causes the sound to fade out whenever it occurs. The real release is rarely if ever played (I was playing a note where the release waveform is clearly different to a fade waveform.)

csw900
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Last Edit: 2 weeks 16 hours ago by csw900. Reason: to add a PS
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Organ - Custom release glitch. 2 weeks 11 hours ago #6

  • bottrop
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i recorded the loop+release; this is what happens;
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