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TOPIC: Envelope editor

Envelope editor 1 month 3 weeks ago #7

  • ziyametedemircan
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If we're talking about percussion samples, the situation will be a little weirder.
I suggest completely ignoring the display in the AHDSR window.
If you want the entire sample to be played, look at the sample's duration and multiply that by 6. //and don't ask why, this is an average constant found by trial and error.
And then just write the number you found in the release time without writing anything to the attack, decay and sustain parameters.

example: sample time 2.365s
2.365 x 6 = 14.19 <= This is the result you will use for release time.
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Envelope editor 1 month 3 weeks ago #8

  • Michael
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Within the SFZ-format this issue is fixed with the opcode [loop_mode=one_shot]

I personally avoid this, also for samples such as snares. Even when you'll use at least 8 different sound recordings for the snare which will be heared round robin by pressing its refering keys (opcodes [lorand] and [hirand]) with the purpose to avoid an unnatural repetition effect, the listener will still notice very much it's a sampled snare instead of an acoustic one. With the mode one_shot the samples will be played whole including the last part containing only a bit of reverb and some recording-noise. Despite the low amplitude that last part of the recording is very much responsible for giving away it's a sampled instrument.

You can't completely simulate an acoustic sound or music instrument with sampling only. However the release is very important for the creation of a dynamic and pleasant sounding instrument.

Suppose the sample of a recorded snare is 1.5 seconds long. I'll use that sample for a soundfont a I'll set the release time to be 6 seconds. Then you'll hear the whole sample with a short-holding keystroke, though you'll hear very much as well the amplitude fades away instead of the sample will be played as it really is. However because all the keystrokes on the keyboard are unique - you cannot force yourself to press a key for an exact amount of time - the release time of the envelope becomes very much influencable for the dynamics.


(I am aware I can sound like an arrogant clever dick. But it's not meant to be disrespectfull towards anyone. It's just my opinion and it's of course okay when you disagree with me.)
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Envelope editor 1 month 3 weeks ago #9

  • ziyametedemircan
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@Michael: Your way of expressing your opinion is perfectly normal. Besides, I always make direct statements and I don't think it's rude to the other person. Or maybe I just don't like unnecessary politeness.

I wonder which percussion instrument lasts 18 seconds; maybe a large bell-tree or a rain-stick?
Even with these, a release time of 1 or 1.5 seconds is sufficient (in polyphone: 6s or 9s).
Because it is certain that the sound will end with a nice fade-out in an average of 1 or 1.5 second after the key is released.
Edit: (It is clear that on this instrument it will be necessary to hold down the key as long as necessary.)

NOTE: In all of what is described here: It is assumed that the key is pressed at the highest velocity value (as midi value: 127) and the sample is optimized as 0dB. At lower velocity values, the release time will decrease depending on the percentage.
Last Edit: 1 month 3 weeks ago by ziyametedemircan. Reason: Explain
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Envelope editor 1 month 3 weeks ago #10

  • bottrop
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"I add a sound sample which is 25 seconds long. It is a percussion sound, so I want to sound the complete sample whenever it is invoked, regardless how long the key is pressed."

if you want to hear the full 25 seconds, you will have to keep the key pressed for 25 seconds. you are the one who is making music, not the soundfont.
regards bottrop
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Envelope editor 1 month 3 weeks ago #11

  • Johan Vromans
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[quote="bottrop" post=1769if you want to hear the full 25 seconds, you will have to keep the key pressed for 25 seconds. you are the one who is making music, not the soundfont.[/quote]

You do have a point B) .

I have a collection of sound samples I made from 'singing bowls' (aka 'standing bells'). They can sound easily up to 30-60 seconds. I'm working on a tool to make automated compositions of these sounds. I thought that turning the samples into a sound font and then make the composition using MIDI would make things easier. But apparently I'm hitting limits here.

No problem! It was a nice exercise and I learned a lot about soundfonts and the the excellent Polyphone tool.
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Envelope editor 1 month 3 weeks ago #12

  • Johan Vromans
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@Michael I appreciated your information!
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